Newbie with a 3020

[Spooky]

Could be an expensive call guys, I spoke to Chris yesterday he's in China with Charli this week at the manufacturers.

best wishes

Dave

[johnb80]

Warranty is a difficult area, I feel Chris has it right with the smaller machines i.e. return to base. Imagine the implications if it was an onsite warranty, it would cost Chris dearly to travel to the machines and effect repairs, how do you think this additional cost would be funded? the price of each and every machine would have to rise.

For what it's worth I have a 6040 and have done all of the work needed on the machine myself, it's the only way to learn.

J

[Spooky]

(Please note the following reflects my personal opinion and is in no way intended to reflect what may or may not be HPC's position, Chris or Charli are the only people that can tell you the HPC position on warranty)

I tend to agree with John, warranty is a hard call, what does warranty apply to?

In most cases my understanding is that it is against faulty manufacture or defects in the actual physical items that are outside of the design protocols.
It comes down to what is nominal running adjustment that is the responsibility of the end user and what is adjustment / repair that is the responsibility of the supplier. I think with lasers as users we all have to be aware that they are complex pieces of equipment that do require user input and maintenance as well as a degree of knowledge of the equipment itself. A lot of the time there are no real "hard and fast" rules of what to do with the machines as every situation has so many variables there is no way to write a "rule book". I guess that's a lot of the reason for the forums, so we, as users, can all exchange information and learn from each other.

Take tube life, there are at least 15 different user caused problems that can kill a tube in 30 seconds, because I read that a tube has a life of approx 1000 hrs there is no way I could moan at Chris about tube life if I let mine bubble and crack a mirror (been there done that on a tube with less than 20 hours on it) I put it down to experience and pass the info on here and make sure I don't make the same mistake twice.

Something John is very right about, if Chris had to come out to change a bulb for example on machines every time one went under warranty, the 6840 would be closer to £12,000 instead of £6,000, HPC's support structure has been excellent for me, if it hadn't you can be sure I wouldn't be posting here or even own one of their machines, I looked at a lot of suppliers in the UK before buying from HPC and some of them ...well...I'm sure you can imagine

To get up to speed with the 6840 took me about 3 months of daily learning, and that's as a qualified draughtsman (so no drawing or software issues) and even though 3 months may sound like a long time ,it's no more than a heartbeat in the bigger picture of business set ups. Every day I learn a little bit more about what I'm trying to achieve and hone my skillset to suit, hell, I'm still finding out things about AutoCAD and I've been using that since version 1.3 in August 1983.....

just my take on it really

best wishes

Dave

[Leon]

I've got no problem with the warranty, or taking it down to HPC, I was just told two different things, so thought it was odd. Driving out to every customer who had a niggle would cost far too much for them. I'm also fine with getting to grips with the machine and learning how to look after it myself, but after quite a lot of questions and replies here, I've still not got a 100% working machine, so the only solution now is to go down and get a demo session. I think people using these machines should have some basic working knowledge of lasers before buying, as that would save so much hassle. I'd never even seen one before I got mine, and I think that's been the source of a lot of my problems.

To update further on my last post, I got an email from Chris (in China!), saying to bring the machine down next Tuesday. I gave them a ring, and spoke to a very helpful lady who confirmed the arrangements, so I'll be getting all my kit in the car on Tuesday and setting off on the 2 hour trip to Halifax! Hopefully, by Tuesday night, I'll be lasering like never before!

PS, back on warranty's, would the extractor be covered by the warranty? It seems odd for a simple bit of kit like that to just stop working? Chris said they were £35 +VAT for a new one, which isn't the biggest dent in the wallet, but the fan is only 5 months old?

[PhillyDee]

RE the extractor fan, Modify it! Take out the fan gubbins, tape up the holes. You then have a 100mm vent to machine adapter. Buy a 400m3 fan (as a minimum) and the extraction is much better.

[Spooky]

No idea regarding the fan Leon, there is very little in them to go wrong other than the motor I guess.

Phil is spot on with extraction though, I've got one of the big Machinemart jobbies on mine as well and that could suck a golf ball through a garden hose

I know what you mean about starting out from scratch, I had never seen a budget laser before I bought mine, I think I must have scrapped £200 worth + of material getting up to speed with it. Sometimes it does feel like an uphill struggle but it's worth it in the end

best wishes

Dave

ps: I just heard one of the companies who I was considering buying from at the start has gone to the wall so that was a lucky escape

[Mike]

I don't have a problem with return to base warranty. But having some sort of technical agent network would be a good idea.
I am a design engineer and some of the problems I have had to sort out myself are well beyond the normal abilities of most “users”

The way warranty works if an agent is called out to a job that is not warranty then the customer has to pay for the call out.
This is how most warranties on large appliances operate.
Needless to say the HPC warranty is only 10 days, so by the time most people have got the machine working well it has expired.

I am not trying to derate Chris and the team here, he has been very good on the phone, and when the machine works it’s fantastic!
My issue is that the after sales written technical information or the availability of onsite help has not met my expectation.

As an example, when supplying a spare tube it could have an A4 sheet giving some info on the correct orientation of the water pipes to best avoid air bubbles, which is the likely reason that I blew a tube, and how do you make a solder connection to a titanium pin!

It is not as straight forward adjusting the mirrors on the lower budget machines so a well documented instruction sheet on how to adjust the mirrors would probably help here too.

The forums have been my most useful tool and I could probably write a 10 page service manual based on the information I have learnt here alone. I agree it is not possible to cover everything, but more detailed information is required when the user has to do certain maintenance/repair tasks themselves.

[Spooky]

Hummm

I can't really comment on warranty but what I can say is warranty terms and conditions do NOT over ride current UK or EC directives

The only thing I would disagree with is instructions, I just bought a new set of 19" alloys for my AMG, they cost considerably more than 80% of HPC's lasers and I didn't get any instructions on fitting or balancing and they came direct from AMG in Germany.

My Mitsu metal cutting laser came with no written instructions, it cost me £600 for a sparky to wire it to the 3 phase and that was it, I got a 400 page user handbook that tells me nothing at all (not even how to turn it on) and mostly consisted of Japlish instructions about not climbing into the thing when it's running
Aligning the tube / mirrors in reality isn't an end user job, most of us do it and cope very well but at the end of the day these are quite technical pieces of equipment and as such if you want to maintain them you do really need to know a fair bit about laser technology. That doesn't just apply to HPC machines it applies to £200,000 Mitsu metal cutters as well.

best wishes

Dave

[Mike]

I don’t want to rant about this really, when the laser works I am the happiest man alive, when it’s down I am as miserable as sin… that’s what my wife says anyway, but I do have a view on it. Would I buy another one.. yes, but I would buy the next model up and get the better hardware. That’s been part of my learning process.

I am about to buy a mechanical engraving/milling machine and I have learnt allot from this experience which will hopefully help me make the right choice now

[Spooky]

I agree there Mike, from what I have seen newlydraw is rubbish, I guess the upside is that it's also cheap as far as I understand it is possible to change out the cards but your going to heading towards the price of the next machine up in the range to do it

My next big investment is going to be in an RF 10,000 Hr tube and power supply....it's just justifying nearly the cost of an entire machine for it that grates a little

best wishes

Dave